Healthy Spaces Podcast: Season 4, Episode 2 - Nitty Gritty on Net-Zero
Healthy Spaces Podcast: Season 4, Episode 2 - Nitty Gritty on Net-Zero
NORTHAMPTON, MA / ACCESSWIRE / July 23, 2024 / Trane Technologies
Trane技術/科技於2024年7月23日在北安普敦/ACCESSWIRE發佈。
What does it really take to get to net-zero? Listen to climate leader Avipsa Mahapatra talk about the challenge and importance of transforming global climate goals into meaningful action.
要實現零排放需要什麼?請聽氣候領袖Avipsa Mahapatra講述將全球氣候目標轉化爲有意義行動的挑戰和重要性。
Achieving a net-zero economy is a huge challenge, requiring change on a global scale that impacts the way we live, work and do business. But it's not enough to recognize the need for action. What does it really take to transform big goals into meaningful progress?
實現零排放經濟是一個巨大的挑戰,需要全球範圍內的變革,影響我們的生活、工作和業務方式。但僅僅認識到需要行動是遠遠不夠的。到底需要什麼來將宏偉目標轉化爲有意義的進展?
In this episode of the Healthy Spaces podcast, Avipsa Mahapatra, Climate Campaign Director at the Environmental Investigation Agency, joins host Scott Tew for a conversation inspired by the "Nitty-Gritty on Net-Zero Roadmaps" discussion held at South by Southwest 2024. Mahapatra has been leading a global decarbonization of the cooling sector with a particular focus on super pollutant HFCs for more than a decade.
在這期“健康空間”播客中,來自環境調查機構的氣候運動主任Avipsa Mahapatra加入主持人Scott Tew的對話,討論日前在南西南西西南西南西南西西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西南西舉行的”Nitty-Gritty on Net-Zero Roadmaps”討論會所激發的對話。Mahapatra已經領導了超級污染物HFC的全球脫碳行動,特別關注了這一領域十多年。
Listen to the full episode to learn more about the importance of transparency, data and ambition as companies develop and act on their sustainability goals to reach net-zero.
收聽完整版以了解對公司開發和落實可持續發展目標以實現零排放的透明度、數據和雄心的重要性。
Episode Guests
嘉賓
Host: Dominique Silva, Marketing Leader EMEA, Trane Technologies
Host: Scott Tew, VP Sustainability, Trane Technologies
Guest: Avipsa Mahapatra, Climate Campaign Director at Environmental Investigation Agency
主持人:Trane技術/科技 EMEA市場營銷總監Dominique Silva
主持人:Trane技術/科技可持續性副總裁Scott Tew
嘉賓:環境調查機構氣候運動主任Avipsa Mahapatra
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您如何在您的組織或社區構建健康空間?
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與我們分享您的故事,並了解有關健康空間播客的更多信息。
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文字記錄
[00:00:00] Dominique: Reducing plastic waste, shopping locally, using public transportation, even investing in more efficient and renewable technology in our homes. We all know that adopting new habits can be hard, but also go a long way to lower our carbon footprint. But achieving a net-zero economy? For that, change has to happen at a much broader scale. Buildings, road infrastructures, agriculture, tourism, they all need to be adapted, fundamentally changing the way that we live, work, and play. That's why many organizations are setting ambitious goals. But net-zero is a big challenge. And change is hard. And when things get hard, We could all use some accountability to stay on course.
[00:00:00]Dominique: 減少塑料垃圾、購物、使用公共交通工具、甚至在家裏投資更有效率和可再生技術。我們都知道養成新的習慣很難,但這也能很大程度上減少我們的碳足跡。但實現零排放經濟?爲此,需要在更廣泛的範圍內進行變革。建築、道路基礎設施、農業、旅遊業,它們都需要進行調整,從根本上改變我們的生活、工作和娛樂方式。這就是爲什麼許多組織設定了宏偉目標。但零排放是一個巨大的挑戰。當事情變得艱難時,我們都需要一些責任來保持正確的方向。
[00:00:48] Avipsa: Global problems are immensely hard, but we can do hard things. We have done hard things. So, not only should your commitments be public, be ambitious, you should be able to, as a company, have faith in yourself to put your money where your mouth is. You have to invest in it. You have to transparently tell the public how much you're investing, why you're investing, and what you're targeting. And if we got that level of honesty, And if we had people then come and say, you know, we failed here because this was hard. That makes sense. That allows us to work together. That allows us as a society to figure out solutions because as we accomplish, it is challenging.
[00:00:48] Avipsa: 全球性問題非常艱鉅,但我們可以做到。我們已經做到了很多艱鉅的事情。因此,你們的承諾不僅應該是公開、承諾,而且作爲一家公司,你們應該對自己有信心,按照承諾行事。你必須投資於此。您必須向公衆透明地告知您投資了多少,爲什麼投資和您的目標是什麼。如果我們達到了那個誠實的水平,如果有人說我們在這裏失敗了,因爲這很困難。這是有意義的。它使我們能夠共同努力解決問題。它使我們作爲一個社會找到解決方案,因爲隨着我們的成功,這是很有挑戰的。
[00:01:33] Dominique: You just heard from Avipsa Mahapatra, Director of Climate Campaign at the Environmental Investigation Agency. And I'm Dominique Silva. And you're listening to Healthy Spaces, the podcast exploring how technology and innovation are transforming the spaces where we live, learn, work, and play. In today's episode, we're learning about the environmental impact of heating and cooling systems in buildings. And how innovation and policy reform are helping to achieve net-zero goals. Our conversation today was inspired by a nitty gritty discussion held earlier this year at South by Southwest, a conference which celebrates the convergence of tech, film, music, education and culture. During this event, our host, Trane Technologies Vice President of Sustainability, Scott Tew, speaks with Avipsa about the importance of transparency, as well as how companies need to be approaching their sustainability goals to reach net-zero. And with that, it's over to Scott.
[00:01:33] Dominique: 您剛剛聽到了來自環境調查機構氣候運動主任Avipsa Mahapatra的發言。我是Dominique Silva。您正在收聽“健康空間”播客,該播客探討了技術和創新如何改變我們居住、學習、工作和娛樂的空間。在今天的節目中,我們將了解建築物中制熱和製冷系統的環境影響以及創新和政策改革如何幫助實現零排放目標。我們今天的對話是在今年早些時候舉行的南西南western技術、電影、音樂、教育和文化的會議上所激發的。在這個事件期間,我們的主持人,Trane Technologies公司可持續發展副總裁Scott Tew,與Avipsa討論了透明度的重要性,以及公司需要採取什麼可持續發展目標來實現零排放。現在就聽聽Scott的發言吧。
[00:02:36] Scott: Cooling and heating buildings represents a huge opportunity, at least that's the way I think of it. And the opportunity is in reducing emissions. Whether you know it or not, 15 percent of the world's emissions today are related to heating and cooling buildings like this one, and your home, and your office. Part of that emissions footprint is from the electricity that's used to power those systems, and it is big. Electricity use in those systems is roughly 40 percent of a building's energy use. Nothing else compares. So that's huge. The other piece of emissions is we are in this very strange space where we use greenhouse gases to actually cool the building. in the form of something called refrigerants, which are regulated greenhouse gases. Uh, some of the world is moving towards natural refrigerants, and they're not the savior yet, uh, but we're trending that way. And, but that is why a company like Trane Technologies has to be focused on where we're headed around net-zero. We will not reach net-zero unless we change how we heat and cool buildings because it represents too large of an opportunity to ignore. And Avipsa, your link then as well around things like refrigerants, maybe you want to explain that piece.
[00:02:36] Scott: 給建築物制熱和製冷新的方案是一個巨大的機遇,至少我是這麼想的。機會就在於減排。不管你知不知道,今天世界的15%的排放與像這座建築、您的家和辦公室一樣的建築物的制熱和製冷有關。其中一部分排放量來自用於供電這些系統的電力,而這是相當大的。這些系統中的電力使用約佔建築物能源消耗的40%,沒有其他能源與之相比。因此,這是一個巨大的機遇。排放的另一部分是我們正處於這個非常奇怪的空間中,在這個空間中,我們使用溫室氣體來冷卻建築物。這些氣體被稱爲製冷劑,是受規管管的溫室氣體。一些世界正在向天然製冷劑轉移,雖然它們還不是一個救星,但我們正在朝着這個方向努力。但這就是爲什麼像Trane技術/科技這樣的公司必須專注於我們向零排放的發展方向,因爲如果我們不改變制熱和製冷建築物的方式,我們將無法達到零排放,因爲這代表了一個不能忽視的機會。Avipsa,你的鏈接以及像製冷劑這樣的東西,也許您想解釋一下。
[00:03:48] Avipsa: You all must remember CFCs, the chlorofluorocarbons that were used as coolants back in the 1990s. And they caused a hole in our ozone layer because of which they were globally banned. But then what happened? What did we have to use instead of CFCs? What ended up happening was that globally CFCs were replaced by mouthfuls. sounding refrigerants, hydrochlorofluorocarbons and hydrofluorocarbons, HFCs. These are super pollutants that do not cause a hole in the ozone layer, but that are extremely potent warmers of our planet. Those are hundreds to thousand times as bad for our climate as the equivalent amount of CO2. So what that means is that even by addressing the smaller seeming sector, which is the heating and cooling sector, we have an outsized influence in how much we can mitigate climate change. And so that is one of our sort of low hanging fruits, if you may. It's a fast action available to us while we as a globe are trying to find solutions, more sustainable solutions that take very long, such as, you know, decoupling from fossil fuels. But while we are doing that, this gets us time and gets us climate mitigation, which we cannot afford to lose while we figure out other stuff. To just put what we're talking about in context, the Montreal Protocol, which is arguably the most successful environmental treaty, is the only environmental treaty that every single country in the world is party to. In 2016, after many years of hard work, we got something known as the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol, which essentially means every country in the world signed onto this amendment to the Montreal Protocol. That they are going to phase out or phase down the use of these potent super greenhouse gases that are HFCs. And I promised you context. It's coming. So if the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol is successfully implemented, that shaves off about half a degree Celsius of warming. Which is a lot. So, does that answer your question?
[00:03:48] Avipsa: 您必須記住CFCs,即1990年代用作製冷劑的氯氟化碳。由於它們在臭氧層中造成的問題,他們被全球性禁止。但是接下來發生了什麼?我們不得不使用什麼代替CFCs?全球範圍內用難以理解的名稱的製冷劑替代了CFCs,例如氫氯氟烴和氫氟烴。這些是超級污染物,不會在臭氧層中造成問題,但它們是我們星球的極端溫暖劑。它們比相同數量的CO2嚴重得多,相當於數百到數千倍。因此,即使只針對看似較小的制熱和製冷行業,我們的行動也具有超出預期的影響,可以減輕氣候變化的影響。所以這是我們的小目標之一。緩解氣候變化,我們不能失去這一點,因爲我們嘗試找到其他可行解決方案時,這爲我們節省時間並減輕氣候影響。爲了讓我們談論的內容有意義,蒙特利爾公約無疑是最成功的環境條約,這是全球唯一每個國家都是簽署方的環境條約。經過多年的艱苦努力,2016年我們得到了所謂的“基加利修正案”,這意味着全球各個國家都簽署了這項修正案。他們將逐步減少使用這些強效溫室氣體HFC。我向您保證,這件事很有意義。這使我們能夠一起努力解決問題。這使我們作爲一個社會找到解決方案,因爲隨着我們的成功,這是很有挑戰的。那回答了你的問題嗎?
[00:06:13] Scott: It does, thank you. The summer of 2014, ten years ago this summer, I was with a group of our company leaders and we were in a room to do a bit of a scenario assessment. It was really meant to say, uh, does everyone in the room believe this climate science that's out there? This was before companies began setting what I would call bold commitments around reducing emissions. And we were, we asked ourselves a couple of questions. One was, do we believe the science? And if we believe the science, what does that mean to our company strategy going forward? Because we knew that if we answered, yes, we believe it, it wouldn't necessarily mean that they too meant we were going to talk about what do we do to change the portfolio. And, and we left that meeting and in early 2015, we announced the first round of our climate commitments. That one included a, a 500 million U. S. Research Fund around next generation refrigerants. It also included, uh, some, at the time, very bold commitments around reducing emissions. A 50 percent number was, was out there as a really large number related to refrigerants, related to our product impacts. And we didn't know what we didn't know that day. We learned it over the next couple of years. We learned that if you want to fire up your employees and, and really supercharge innovation, and you really want to open up the doors to partnerships. mentioned that you have 500 million and that you're about to upgrade your facility so you almost dare your employees to watch you put your money where your mouth is and begin to change who the company is. And we successfully did that. It's easier to tell that story looking backwards than, than where it was back then. However, today, where, where are we today? We are, we were company number 11 to have a science based validated target by the SBTI that's a net-zero target. So that's company number 11, and it's still only a handful of companies have gone through the rigors of having their net zero plan validated. I was looking at a BCG study that came out in December with some startling things about how insufficient the plans are currently around net zero. The numbers I wrote down earlier today, only 35 percent of the countries of the world has made a commitment around reducing carbon that might get them on the path to net-zero. Less than 20 percent of the corporations of the world have made a commitment that puts them on the right path to net zero. These numbers are startlingly low. And so, with that, Avipsa, so I was wondering, what's your, what are your views about the role of transparency?
[00:06:13] Scott:非常感謝。2014年夏天,也就是十年前的今天,我和我們公司的一群領導在一個會議室裏進行了一次情景評估。實際上,這是爲了確定在場的每個人是否都相信已經公佈的氣候科學。在公司開始制定大膽的減排承諾之前,這樣的評估實際上是爲了解決,如果我們回答是,我們相信這個科學,那麼這將對我們公司未來的戰略意味着什麼?因爲我們知道,如果我們回答是,那並不意味着他們也會跟我們談論我們要做什麼來改變投資組合。之後,我們離開了那個會議,並在2015年初宣佈了我們的第一輪氣候承諾,包括一個5000萬美元的研究基金,用於下一代製冷劑的研究。它也包括一些當時非常大膽的減排承諾,其中一個是50%的數量,與製冷劑和產品影響有關。那天我們不知道該怎麼辦。在接下來的幾年裏,我們明白了關於如何激發員工、推進創新,還有打開伙伴關係的門,你需要提出你有5000萬美元,將更新你的設施,所以你也會看着員工,看着你把錢放在哪裏,改變公司的面貌。我們成功地做到了這一點。當回顧的時候,它變得更容易講述這個故事。然而,今天我們在哪裏呢?我們是第11家獲得了由SBTI(net-zero target)提供的以科學爲基礎的淨零排放目標的公司。所以它僅是少數幾家公司已經經過了動員他們的淨零計劃的流程。我在12月份看了一份BCG的研究報告,他們發現目前關於淨零的計劃非常不足。我記錄下來的數字是世界上只有35%的國家作出了承諾,致力於減少碳排放,這可能使它們走上實現淨氣的道路。而世界上不到20%的企業的承諾已經讓它們走上了實現淨零的道路。這些數字非常低。因此,Avipsa,我想知道你對透明度的作用有什麼看法?
[00:08:47] Avipsa: Yeah, and I'll take a step back, Scott. Thank you for introducing that topic. And it's so refreshing to hear someone, A, admit to why this needs to be done, but also admit that it's hard. And I'll go back to the Montreal Protocol example to say, yes, global problems are immensely hard. But we can do hard things. We have done hard things. So, even though the transition will be bumpy, even though getting to net-zero will be difficult, there is simply no other option. So, I think the real question is, what kind of commitments are we making? Are these commitments measurable, are they transparent, as you said, and are companies being accountable about actually meeting their commitments, walking the talk? And I'll give you an example of the cooling world. So back in the, not the previous administration, obviously, but in the administration before that, a bunch of companies from the cooling and heating sector got together. At something called the CEQ, which is a, let's call it a climate portion of the White House, and made a lot of commitments. And this is 2008 ish is what I'm talking about, and there were two rounds. We went back last year to check how much has been achieved. And you won't be surprised to hear a lot of them got failing grades. So, it's not just enough to commit to things. First of all, your commitment has to be ambitious. It has to be additional. Don't put your business as usual plan on a piece of paper and tell me that's your climate commitment. So what you bring up about transparency is such an important point because not only should your commitments be public, be ambitious, you should be able to as a company have faith in yourself to put, again, put your money where your mouth is. You have to invest in it. You have to transparently tell the public how much you're investing, why you're investing, and what you're targeting. And if we got that level of honesty, and if we had people then come and say, you know, we failed here because this was hard, that makes sense. That allows us to work together. That allows us as a society to figure out solutions because as we it is challenging. But if you're not transparent, about your commitments. If what you're trying to do really is greenwashing, I'm sorry, you've left no room open for dialogue and for us, our faith as a society in corporate action. And, um, since I mentioned challenges in doing that a few times, maybe I should pause and ask you, Scott, Um, since you have some targets and you've put some money there, what are some challenges you've faced in doing this?
[00:08:47] Avipsa:嗯,我想先談一下,Scott,謝謝你介紹這個話題。聽到有人承認爲什麼需要做這件事也很令人耳目一新,但也承認這很難。我想回到蒙特利爾議定書的例子,是的,全球性問題極爲困難,但我們可以做好事。我們已經做過了。所以,即使轉變會出現顛簸,即使實現淨零排放是困難的,但沒有其他選擇。所以,我認爲真正的問題是,我們是做了什麼樣的承諾?這些承諾是否可衡量,是否透明,正如你所說的那樣,企業是否在履行他們的承諾並實現它們的目標?我的例子來自冷卻世界。回到前一屆政府,冷卻和加熱領域的一些公司在一個被稱爲CEQ的白宮氣候部分聚集在一起,並做出了很多承諾。這是2008年左右的事情,有兩輪。去年我們回去檢查了有多少已經實現的。你不會驚訝地聽到許多公司的承諾沒有實現。所以,光是承諾還不夠。首先,你的承諾必須是有雄心的,是補充的。不要將你的慣常安排打印在一張紙上,告訴我這是你的氣候承諾。因此,你提出的關於透明度的問題是非常重要的,因爲不僅應該公開你的承諾,而且應該充滿雄心,作爲一個公司,你應該有信心將你的承諾轉化爲實際的投資。你必須要進行投資,必須透明地告訴公衆你投入了多少,爲什麼投入,以及你的目標是什麼。如果我們達到了這種透明度的水平,如果我們的人們能夠到一起來說,因爲這真的很具有挑戰性,如果你沒有透明化你的承諾。如果你真的是想打綠色的擦洗,對不起,你也沒有爲對話和我們作爲社會對企業行動的信任留下任何空間。既然我已經多次提到了這方面的挑戰,也許我應該暫停一下,問一下你,Scott,既然你有一些目標,你已經投入了一些資金,那麼你在進行這項工作時面臨了一些什麼樣的挑戰?
[00:11:43] Scott: Yeah, it's a fair question. I mean, there are challenges. So let me acknowledge that first. We might have a net-zero commitment that you see on our website, but there are people like me in the background that are really struggling every day to figure out how do we identify and overcome the challenges. And there are big ones. The energy grid has been under transition for at least 15 years. Texas is like centerpiece of it. The state with the largest renewable energy of any other state by far, across all forms of renewable energy. The other one is EV. The EV transition is certainly underway for the last, I'd say, eight years. In fact, we know that that one has been very bumpy for a lot of reasons. Infrastructure reasons, cost reasons, reliability reasons. Those are two bumpy transitions that are underway. The next big one is the built environment buildings like this one. We cannot get to net-zero until we figure out how to take these buildings and make them much more efficient, much lower on the emissions footprint than they are today because they're horrible. This is the opportunity. And that one is complicated. That's what you were asking about. One of the complications is we don't have the data. I was talking to somebody before the session, Who is, uh, working to help companies understand how they get the data that we need. We can't make and manage our emissions footprint until we have better data. Somebody's got to help us understand all types of other things. And we really don't have time for us to measure every square inch of this building to understand it. We need smarter technologies. and new approaches to do that.
[00:11:43] Scott:是的,這是一個公平的問題。我的確面臨着挑戰。首先,你看到我們網站上的淨零承諾,但是我們其中一些人每天都在苦苦掙扎,嘗試找到如何識別和克服挑戰的方法。但是還有一些大問題。能源網絡的轉型已經進行了至少15年。德克薩斯州是其中的核心地帶。在所有形式的可再生能源中,它是所有其他州中最大的可再生能源。另一個是電動汽車(EV)。電動汽車轉型肯定已經進行了近8年。實際上,我們知道出於許多原因,這一點已經非常顛簸。基礎設施原因,成本原因,可靠性原因。這是已經在進行中的兩個顛簸轉型。接下來的下一個大問題就是建成環境,像這樣的建築。在我們不把這些建築物變得更加高效、減少排放的時候,我們永遠不可能實現淨零。因爲它們很糟糕。這是機會。它非常的複雜。這就是你提到的那個。其中一個複雜之處在於我們沒有數據。我之前和一個人談話,他正在幫助公司了解他們需要的數據。在我們獲得更好的數據之前,我們不能制定和管理我們的排放情況。他們中必須有人幫助我們了解各種其他事情。我們真的沒有時間去衡量這棟建築樓的每一平方英寸來了解它。我們需要更智能的技術和新的方法來做到這一點。
[00:13:21] Dominique: There is no shortage of challenges in reaching net zero emissions. For the built environment, it could be that smarter technologies and better data provide part of the answer for overcoming them. But there's another key element that will help individuals and organizations reach their emissions targets, and it's not futuristic tech. In fact, it involves technology that has been around for decades.
[00:13:21] Dominique:在實現淨零排放方面存在很多挑戰。對於建設環境而言,更智能的技術和更好的數據可能提供克服挑戰的部分答案。但是還有另外一個關鍵因素,將幫助個人和組織達到他們的排放目標,而且這並不是未來的技術。事實上,它涉及的技術已經有幾十年了。
[00:13:50] Avipsa: You talk about buildings and, um, a common person, well, any of us really, at least I don't know about you, I did not have a choice in choosing what kind of technology goes into my house for air conditioning, right? And I would imagine that a lot of people, especially those who live in rental apartments may not have that choice. So, what does that mean in terms of who are your clients, and what do they do, and how can, you know, somebody understand what is happening, um, in, in some of this work that you're doing?
[00:13:50] Avipsa:你談到的是建築和一個普通人,或者我們中的任何一個人,至少我不知道你,我沒有選擇什麼樣的技術放入我的空調房間,對吧?我想很多人,特別是那些住在租賃公寓中的人可能沒有選擇。那麼,這對你的客戶是什麼意思,他們在做什麼,你所做的工作中發生了什麼,大家如何理解你所做的一些工作方面的發展?
[00:14:23] Scott: Yeah, I mean, that's one of the big things we're up against. There's a lot of people that just don't know what they don't know. They don't know what's available now. The technology and the solutions have advanced so significantly in the last five years that if you've not done something recently, in either your home or the building that you work in, then you're missing out on some solution that could be reducing energy use and that could be reducing the emissions footprint. I'm 100 percent positive in that. That's unfortunate. Some of that's just not knowing what you don't know. The other is just there's some misinformation, too. Some of the solutions that's out there in the marketplace are, there's just myths that continue to have a stronghold. Some of the myths around heat pumps, for instance. Heat pumps have been around for decades. People are talking about them now as if they're some, uh, new, uh, thing out of a science fiction, uh, movie. They're not. Well, they've come back, though, and, and, and the way they've come back is it's the solution for actually electrifying the heating of buildings. Ninety seven percent of heating in the world is still based on fossil fuels, which means that we're still burning things to heat ourselves. Just like we did in the cave 10, 000 years ago. It's high time that we move away from burning things to heat our homes and heat our buildings we work in, when we no longer have to. Yet, there's myths out there about these technologies, like they don't work in cold climates. They don't work on hot summer days in Texas. All these things are myths. We're selling them in Canada. We're selling them in Minnesota. We're selling them in the Nordic countries of Europe. And everyone is extremely pleased. And we've moved completely away from fossil fuels to heat the buildings. So all those things are possible. The issue is, it's moving too slowly. If anything, I would say it's just, the transition is just too slow. And I'm not sure to your point about the 1. 5 degrees, that we can wait much longer for this transition to speed up. Yeah,
[00:14:23] Scott:是的,這是我們所面臨的重大問題之一。有很多人只是不知道自己不知道的事情。如果你最近在家裏或你工作的建築物中沒有做過些什麼,那麼你就錯過了一些能夠減少能源使用和減少排放的解決方案。我非常確定。這是不幸的。有些只是不知道自己不知道。另一個是有一些誤解。市場上一些解決方案有一些誤區。例如,關於熱泵的一些誤區。熱泵已經有幾十年了。現在人們談論它們,就好像它們是科幻電影中的新事物。它們並不是。但是它們已經回來了,而且,它們回來的方式是電氣化建築加熱的解決方案。全世界97%的供暖仍然是基於化石燃料的,這意味着我們仍然在燒東西來加熱自己。就像我們在1000年前的山洞一樣。現在是時候離開燃燒東西來加熱我們的家園和工作建築的時候了。然而,市面上關於這些技術的一些謠言,有一些謠言仍然根深蒂固。例如,它們在寒冷的氣候中不起作用。它們在德克薩斯州炎熱的夏日中不起作用。所有這些事情都是謠言。我們正在加拿大銷售它們。我們正在明尼蘇達州銷售它們。我們正在歐洲的北歐國家銷售它們。每個人都感到非常滿意。我們已經完全取代了使用化石燃料來加熱建築物的方式。所以這些都是可能的。問題是,它們的變化速度太慢了。如果說什麼,我會說這個過渡實在太慢了。我不確定對於你提到的那個1.5度來說,我們是否還能等待更長的時間來加速這個轉變。
[00:16:19] Avipsa: and thank you for bringing up misinformation. Because I don't think we have enough time for me to go over all my thoughts and feelings about that. I'll just give a quick example. I grew up in India back in the 1990s with some of this technology that you're talking about, which is now being called new technology, but essentially it is using a refrigerant that is not fluorinated, so it's not synthesized in the lab, does not damage the ozone layer, and doesn't also damage the climate because this particular refrigerant known as, zero or one or, you know, very low global warming potential GWP, which is a measure of how bad something is for the climate. So, back in the 90s, going back, I grew up with that refrigerator. When I came to the US, all of the refrigerators were using HFCs. And I was like, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. And I kid you not, the American companies, their argument was, Americans need bigger fridges. And so bigger fridges need a different kind of refrigerant, otherwise it's not safe. That's interesting because the same kind of fridges are everywhere else in Europe and starting in Africa. And what we did was we compared, say, Company A, I won't name any names, Company A was producing refrigerators in Europe that were the same size, but using the right kind of refrigerant, but not in the U. S. So, talk about misinformation. That has now, we called it out, that has now changed. You can walk into your Home Depot or Lowe's and find fridges in the U. S., including in, you know, any of your newer homes, if you are in a newer home, that do not contain the super greenhouse gas HFCs anymore.
[00:16:19] Avipsa: 感謝您提出錯誤信息。因爲我覺得我們沒有足夠的時間來討論我所有的想法和感受。我會給您一個快速的例子。我在20世紀90年代在印度長大,使用了您所說的一些技術,現在被稱爲新技術,但本質上它使用的是一種非氟製冷劑,因此不在實驗室合成,不會破壞臭氧層,也不會對氣候造成傷害,因爲這種特定的冷凍劑稱爲零或一或非常低的全球變暖潛力GWP,這是衡量某些事物對氣候有多糟糕的一種標準。所以回到90年代,我和那臺冰箱一起長大了。當我來到美國時,所有的冰箱都使用HFC。而我想,等一下,這不合理。而且我不是開玩笑,美國公司的論點是,美國人需要更大的冰箱。因此,更大的冰箱需要不同類型的冷凍劑,否則不安全。有趣的是,同樣的冰箱在歐洲和非洲開始普遍使用。我們進行了比較,比如說,A公司,在歐洲生產了相同尺寸的冰箱,但使用正確的冷凍劑,但在美國沒有。所以,談論錯誤信息。現在已經改變了。您可以走進家得寶或Lowe's,在美國找到不再含有超級溫室氣體HFC的冰箱,包括在任何較新的住宅中,如果您住在一座新的住宅中。
[00:18:03] Scott: Let's talk about accountability. Next you'll get a, you'll get another peek at our company's view of net, uh, net-zero future. We have been at least once a year, to your point, putting out our latest thinking and data around our progress so far, as well as what else is out there that we're looking into that we believe will be important to us. Last year, we had a really cool map. It was our way of actually showing a roadmap to net zero that included some pieces of net zero that were, that we knew we would have to understand more, things like carbon capture, that we don't yet have capabilities inside the company. Well, we placed them there. We placed them in certain years because our team is looking into how do we do that and how do we either attach it to our existing portfolio and solutions? Do we integrate it? Do we go out and find a partner for it? Is it part of an acquisition of the future? There are a lot of things there in the map. And some of those things we know really deeply, and we have data on them, to your point. And some of those things we're just acknowledging will be part of our future. And we have teams who are looking into that now. And so that team does that, but they also do some fun things internally for us. So they can model sort of a eat this, not that for our, our product managers. So when we're the customer, we can actually showcase where if customer A chose this system versus this system, they can immediately understand what the impact would be on their emissions footprint of the customer, uh, at the project level. That's great. We, we, so we have those capabilities and I would say that that's part of our future because we have to have some type of crystal ball to understand how much do we invest in this today versus maybe wait until the technology is more mature? What about your world of accountability?
[00:18:03] Scott: 讓我們談論責任。接下來,您將了解我們公司對淨零未來的觀點。我們每年至少一次以您的觀點,在我們發佈最新的思考和數據,以及我們正在關注並認爲對我們重要的其他內容。去年,我們有一張非常酷的地圖。這是我們向淨零的路線圖,其中包括了一些淨零的內容,我們知道我們必須更好地了解,例如碳捕獲,我們尚未在公司內部具備這些能力。好吧,我們把它們放在那裏。我們按照某些年份放置它們,因爲我們的團隊正在研究如何做到這一點,我們是否將其附加到我們的現有組合和解決方案中?我們集成它嗎?我們去找未來的合作伙伴嗎?這張地圖中有很多問題。其中一些問題我們非常了解,我們有關於它們的數據,回到您的觀點。有些問題我們只是承認將成爲我們未來的一部分。我們現在有團隊在研究這個問題。因此,該團隊完成了此操作,但他們還爲我們內部完成了一些有趣的事情。因此,他們可以對我們的產品經理建模,以獲取我們的顧客,並展示客戶A選擇這個系統與選擇這個系統的影響差異,他們可以立即了解客戶在項目級別上的排放足跡。那很棒。我們,因此,具有這些能力,並且我會說這是我們未來的一部分,因爲我們必須具有某種水晶球,以了解我們今天在這方面投資了多少,還是等到技術更成熟?你的責任世界怎麼樣?
[00:19:51] Avipsa: So what I would say is that I would want to go back to this example where, okay, we don't have a choice. Clearly, companies and sometimes policymakers are making the choices for us in terms of, let's say, air conditioning. So what can we do? How many of you try to bike to a grocery store, take your own tote bag, ideally reusable, and you know, when you go into the grocery store, you try to pick the organic stuff, the thing that is not being flown away from far away, and you're trying all of this because you think this is good for climate. What a lot of people don't understand is that even today in most supermarkets in the United States, you open that refrigerator to take out your frozen pizza or whatever, you kind of undid all the climate benefit you tried to do. And we as customers don't know or don't see what's going on. These gases that are being piped through all of the refrigerators you see in a supermarket are damaging to the climate, can be leaking in high amounts. But what happens is that because these are colorless, odorless gases, they're just hiding there or sitting there and people don't know about it. But we have something called the Climate Friendly Supermarkets. org, and what we have there is a map of the world, and you can put in your zip code and find supermarket stores or, you know, grocery stores that are using the right kind of technology, where when it leaks out, if it leaks out, it's not going to be several hundreds to thousands times bad for the climate than CO2. And if your supermarket is not on the map You can't blame us because this is an interactive crowdsource map. So we encourage you then to go into your supermarket and we teach you how to figure out what refrigerant they're using. It's so simple.
[00:19:51] Avipsa: 所以我想說的是我想回到這個例子,在這個例子中,好吧,我們別無選擇。顯然,公司有時會制定我們的選擇,比如說,空調。所以我們能做什麼呢?你們中有多少人試圖用自行車去雜貨店,拿上自己的購物袋,最好是可重複使用的,當你走進雜貨店時,你儘可能採摘有機的食品,那不是從遠方飛來的。你正在嘗試所有這些,因爲你認爲這對氣候有好處。許多人不理解的是,即使是在美國大多數超市,你打開那個冰箱拿出你的冷凍比薩或其他食品,你就會讓你嘗試做的所有氣候受益等於零。作爲顧客,我們不知道或看不到正在發生的事情。在超市銷售的所有冰箱中管道中流動的氣體對氣候有害,可能會泄漏大量氣體。但是,由於這些氣體是無色、無味的,所以它們只是藏在那裏或坐在那裏,人們並不知道。但是我們有一個名爲“氣候友好超市”的組織,我們在那裏有一張世界地圖,您可以輸入您的郵政編碼,找到使用正確技術的超市或雜貨店,如果它們泄漏,泄漏出來的氣體不會比二氧化碳高出數百到數千倍。如果您的超市不在地圖上,您不能責怪我們,因爲這是一張交互式的衆包地圖。因此,我們鼓勵您進入您的超市,並教您如何弄清楚他們正在使用的冷凍劑。這非常簡單。
[00:21:45] Dominique: It can be frustrating to think that our environmentally conscious shopping decisions might be sabotaged by another link in the supply chain, but by staying informed, we as individuals can make better decisions to make sure that our efforts. Don't go to waste. And whether it's an individual or a corporation that wants to reduce their environmental impact, the best thing to start doing better is to look at the data.
[00:21:45] Dominique: 想到我們的環保購物決策可能會被供應鏈的另一個環節破壞可能會很令人沮喪,但通過保持了解,我們作爲個人就可以做出更好的決策,以確保我們的努力不會白費。無論是個人還是想要降低其環境影響的企業,做得更好的最好方法就是查看數據。
[00:22:15] Scott: Well, obviously I mentioned that we transport the majority of the world's fresh food. Yes. And we, and we keep it cool on the way to the grocery store, which is also very important. Reducing food loss also is an emissions driver. And one of the things you mentioned was the data sort of comparing, comparing the people want that. I'm in a company where we all want that too. I would say from the top to the bottom, from the very brand new engineer that's just joined our company. And I talked to one of those just last week who was asking me questions about data. Where's the data? Who had the data? And she wanted to understand how we calculate certain things. The very detailed, she came in the company with lots of questions all the way to the CEO who, uh, I was in a discussion with just recently about a new area that we're trying to calculate in our value stream, sort of with suppliers. And the question was around credibility. He actually asked me, How credible is this data? It's like all modeled. Because some companies, like the one that I'm in, have a culture of, We want to make sure that the data we're using is as good as we can find.
[00:22:15] Scott: 好吧,顯然我提到了我們運輸大多數新鮮食品的世界。是的。我們,而且我們在去雜貨店的路上保持清涼也非常重要。減少食品損耗也是排放驅動因素之一。您提到的其中一件事是比較數據。我在一個公司內工作,我們全都希望如此。我會說從最新加入我們公司的全新工程師到CEO,從頂到底,我上週剛與其中一位工程師交談過,他問了我關於數據的問題。哪裏的數據?誰有數據?她想了解我們如何計算某些事情。非常詳細,她加入公司時就有很多問題,一直到CEO,我們最近正在討論一個新的領域,我們試圖在其中進行價值流計算,與供應商有關。問題在於可信度。他實際上問我,這些數據有多可信?這就像所有建模。因爲像我這樣的一些公司有着這樣的文化,我們希望確保我們使用的數據儘可能好。
[00:23:15] Avipsa: You would think that's normal across companies, but it's always But
[00:23:15] Avipsa: 你會認爲這在公司中很正常,但顯然並非如此,因爲我們的行業甚至有其他公司打電話給我們,他們問我們在報告中計算這些事物嗎?你知道的,我們確實分享了這一點,所以如果您想知道,別猶豫在網上聯繫我們。我認爲我的電子郵件實際上就在公司網站上,所以您可以找到我。我們很樂意分享我們如何進行這些計算,因爲我們認爲這很重要。其中一種是共享知識,而另一種是我們認爲使用盡可能多的好和真實數據是我們實現淨零的一部分。如果它不是基於科學,那麼我們將無法實現它。如果它不可計量,如果它不能追溯,就像你提到的那樣,如果它不是基於某些東西,我們將無法實現它。我知道有些公司仍在使用2006年作爲基準年。對我而言,這是可笑的。我認爲應該對此進行呼籲。我認爲我們應該有非常接近設定目標的基線。我還認爲您應該非常公開地公佈您的數據,並且這些數據應基於科學。有很多方法可以做到這一點。我們使用科學基礎目標框架。還有其他方法可以做到這一點,但我們認爲這非常重要。
[00:23:18] Scott: it must not be, because we have companies, even around our sector, who call us, and they ask questions around, Are you calculating these things that are in your reports? And, you know, we do share that, so if you would like to know, feel free to reach out to us online. I think my email is actually on the company website, so you can find me. And we're happy to share how we're making those calculations, because we think that's important. One is the sharing of the knowledge, and two is we do think that using as much good and real data is part of us getting to net-zero. We will not get there. If it's not science based, we will not get there. If it's not measurable, if it's not accountable, like you mentioned, and if it's not based on something. I know some companies that are still using a baseline year of like 2006. And that's laughable to me. I think they should be called on that. And I think we should have baselines that are very close to when targets are set. I also think that you should be very public with your data and they should be based in science. And there's a lot of ways to do that. We use the science-based targets framework. There are other ways to do that, but we think it's really important that they are. Why aren't others doing that though? You, you have a lot more visibility and how other companies are, what they're saying and how they're, how they're treating data. What are your thoughts there?
[00:23:18] Scott: 但是顯然不是這樣,因爲我們甚至在我們的行業周圍有一些公司打電話給我們,他們問我們是否在報告中計算了這些事情,你知道的,我們確實分享了這些資料,因此如果您想知道,可以隨時在線聯繫我們。我認爲我的電子郵件實際上就在公司網站上,所以您可以找到我。我們很樂意分享我們如何進行這些計算,因爲我們認爲這很重要。其中一種是共享知識,而另一種是我們認爲使用盡可能多的好和真實數據是我們實現淨零的一部分。如果它不是基於科學,那麼我們將無法實現它。如果它不可計量,如果它不能追溯,就像你提到的那樣,如果它不是基於某些東西,我們將無法實現它。我知道有些公司仍在使用2006年作爲基準年。對我而言,這是可笑的。我認爲應該對此進行呼籲。我認爲我們應該有非常接近設定目標的基線。我還認爲您應該非常公開地公佈您的數據,並且這些數據應基於科學。有很多方法可以做到這一點。我們使用科學基礎目標框架。還有其他方法可以做到這一點,但我們認爲這非常重要。
[00:24:35] Avipsa: Yeah, I think unfortunately the market has not pushed out. Let's say rewarded. The market has not pushed out companies that are trying to wait to be pressured in some way, be it regulatory or be it through people, or be incentivized. You know, I hate to use the cliched carrot and sticks, but that's really a lot of companies as people you see often who are like looking at a short term, want to make a quick profit, and unless there was an EPA action, or there is a... We did this with one company where we got 200,000 people to reach out to the CEO and say, this is not acceptable to us.
[00:24:35] Avipsa: 是的,我認爲不幸的是市場並沒有推出。我們可以說是獎勵。市場沒有推出那些試圖等待在某種方式下承受壓力的公司,無論是法規還是人們或是激勵。你知道的,我不願使用陳詞濫調的“胡蘿蔔和棍子”,但這確實是很多公司和人們經常看到的情況。他們只看短期,想要快速賺錢,除非有美國環保局行動,或者有...我們曾經和一家公司合作,讓20萬人聯繫該公司的CEO並說,這對我們來說是不可接受的。
[00:25:14] Scott: 200, 000?
[00:25:14] Scott: 20萬?
[00:25:16] Avipsa: Yeah, and I can name it. It's public. You can look it up. It's Walmart. And now they are changing. Which is, you know, you can imagine the kind of effect that has on the supply chain. So, of course, I encourage everyone in this room to talk to whoever they can to about this. But also in terms of what you asked about why companies are not. I don't think it's necessarily not having the data sometimes, right? I understand and absolutely agree with the idea that it has to be real data, uh, but at the same time, you know, we send a man to the moon, we have electric cars, we can, it's not that hard sometimes. And I think it's also this, um, willingness, I would say, or the political will. And sometimes just having this more, you know, being a smart company, just not all companies are smart, quite frankly, sorry to say that.
[00:25:16] Avipsa: 是的,我可以說出它的名字。它是公開的,你可以查一下。它是沃爾瑪。現在他們在做出改變。你知道,你可以想象這對供應鏈的影響。當然,我鼓勵這個房間裏的每個人與他們認識的人談談這件事。但是就你所問爲什麼公司不這麼做而言,我認爲這並不一定是數據的問題,對嗎?我理解並完全同意這種想法,必須是真實的數據,但同時,你知道,我們可以向月球送人,我們有電動汽車,有時候這並不難。我認爲這也是意願,政治意願。有時候就是擁有這種更多的智慧,就像並非所有公司都很聰明那樣,坦白地說。
[00:26:14] Dominique: A big thank you to Avipsa for joining us on today's episode, where we discuss the importance of transparency and accountability in the pursuit of net-zero. At Trane Technologies, we believe that every job is a sustainability job. Every role provides an opportunity for impact. That's why each week on the podcast, we'll feature how someone is building healthy spaces in their organization or community. This week, we're sharing a submission from Rebecca Verdon, a packaging engineer for Trane in La Crosse, Wisconsin. She shares that when it comes to product distribution, it's important to choose materials that protect both the goods and the environment. So Rebecca is helping Trane to build healthier spaces by improving the sustainability of our packaging. Together with her team, she ensures that the way we package products aligns with our environmental goals. Rebecca also takes every opportunity that she can to talk to consumers, informing them on recyclability as well as waste streams. Whether she's wearing her hat as a packaging engineer or as a citizen, Rebecca is always on a mission to educate the public and encourage good recycling habits through clear and readable labeling. In her community, Rebecca is also a volunteer at STEM based events for local youth. She hopes to inspire kids, and especially young girls, to pursue careers in STEM. Well, Rebecca, you inspired us today. Thank you so much for writing in, and keep up the good work in La Crosse. Would you like to share how you're building healthy spaces too? Well, visit us at tranetechnologies.com/healthy spaces podcast to share your story. That's all for this week. Thank you for listening to the healthy spaces podcast, where we explore how climate technology and innovation are transforming the spaces where we live, work, learn, and play. If you want to find out more about our conversation today, make sure you check out the show notes. And remember to rate and review us in your favorite podcast app. That's it for today's episode. We'll see you next time.
[00:26:14] Dominique: 非常感謝Avipsa加入我們今天的節目,我們討論了在追求淨零的過程中透明度和問責制的重要性。在trane技術公司,我們相信每個工作都是一個可持續工作。每個角色都提供了影響的機會。這就是爲什麼我們每週在播客節目中會介紹一個人正在如何在他們的組織或社區中建立健康的空間。本週,我們分享了一位來自威斯康星拉克羅斯的trane包裝工程師Rebecca Verdon的投稿。她分享了在產品分銷時選擇保護貨物和環境的材料的重要性。因此,Rebecca正在幫助trane通過改進我們包裝的可持續性來建立更健康的空間。與她的團隊一起,她確保我們包裝產品的方式符合我們的環保目標。Rebecca也利用一切機會與消費者交流,告訴他們有關可回收性以及廢棄物流的信息。無論她是以包裝工程師還是公民的身分,Rebecca總是在使命中,通過清晰易讀的標籤教育公衆,鼓勵良好的回收習慣。在她的社區中,Rebecca也是當地青少年活動的STEM志願者。她希望激勵孩子們,尤其是年輕的女孩子,追求STEM職業。好的,Rebecca,你今天激勵了我們。非常感謝你的來信,在拉克羅斯繼續努力。你想分享你是如何建立健康的空間的嗎?那就訪問我們的網站tranetechnologies.com/healthy spaces podcast 來分享你的故事吧。這就是本週的全部內容。謝謝大家收聽健康空間播客,在這裏我們將探索氣候技術和創新如何改變我們生活、工作、學習和遊戲的空間。如果你想了解更多關於我們今天的對話,請務必查看節目說明。記得在你最喜歡的播客應用程序中爲我們評分和評論。今天的節目就到此爲止了,我們下期再見。
View additional multimedia and more ESG storytelling from Trane Technologies on 3blmedia.com.
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